Tuesday, October 5, 2010
Cleopatra's Suicide
I thought our class discussion of why Cleopatra was in the circle of hell involving the sin of lust instead of suicide was very interesting. I personally agree with what chrissy said, the sin of lust she committed before her suicide provoked the suicide itself, so therefore she was in the circle of hell involving lust. Although, as Ms. King said, every suicide is the result of an original sin, so why is Cleopatra the exception? I think that Dante must have thought that the sin that caused the suicide in Cleopatra's case was different. Maybe Dante could have related to something in Cleopatra's life? Or maybe Cleopatra's sin that provoked her suicide was less sinful according to Dante...What do yall think?
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6 comments:
I think that, like we said in class, Dante was holding Cleopatra to the standards of her time. During the classical period, society viewed suicide as a logical option for those who could not live freely or heroically. However, after Christianity spread and became influential in Italy, suicide was seen as sin since in Christianity spiritual freedom is more important than physical freedom. In the Christian religion, the spirit is held in higher esteem than the body, similar to the Neo-Platonist view.
I learn towards your side as well, Julia. Dante could have been holding Cleopatra to that standards of her time, however, why did he not apply that same belief to Virgil and all of the other "virtuous pagans"?
We thought of some ideas in class and I think that if Dante were to exempt those pagans from Hell, no one would have taken his work as a serious praise for God but more of as heresy.
I find it very interesting that Virgil is Dante's guide through hell. Ironically, Virgil is teaching the Pilgrim about God and how to get to Paradise, when he is trapped in Limbo himself. Apparently he is stuck there for being a Pagan, or not believing in Jesus. However, I find it hard to believe that this was his only sin, since Christ wasn't even born until after his death.
Based on our discussion in class, Cleopatra's lust was a more exaggerated sin than actually committing suicide. taking one's life, in Dante's time period, or "falling on one's sword" was often seen as a noble exit from the world. If certain figures could not deal with current struggles, they found suicide to be a logical process. I think Dante placed Cleopatra in the realm of lusters because such a sin was looked down upon more so in her time period.
Olivia raises a very interesting point. Contrary to her beliefs, I feel that Virgil was an ideal canidate for Dante's guide. Like we have discussed in class, Virgil was well admired by Dante, yet his virtuosity and rhetoical skill were still not enough to get him into paradise because he was'nt a Christian. Dante thus demonstrates his belief that no matter how virtuous one is, they cant acheive paradise unless the are Christians. Also,Virgil never necessarily tells Dante how to reach heaven; he simply demonstrates what happens if one becomes subject to hell. For me, it makes sense that Dante is guided in hell by one whom dwells in hell.
I think that it is also important to remember that the characters we see in the circle of suicides are not necessarily guilty of any other sin... Katherine mentioned that every suicide is the result of an original sin, but I don't think that this is necessarily true at all. After all, wasn't Pier della Vigna a loyal servent of his lord? What crime did he commit before his suicide?
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